862 - 'Abdullah ibn Ahmad informed us, saying: I heard my father, and 'Ali ibn al-Jahm asked him about one who asserts the Qadar (decree), whether he is a disbeliever. My father replied: "If he denies the [pre-eternal] knowledge—if he says Allah, the Almighty and Exalted, was not [already] knowing until He created knowledge and then came to know—then by denying the knowledge of Allah, the Almighty and Exalted, he is a disbeliever." He said: And I heard my father say: "If a man says: 'The knowledge is created,' then he is a disbeliever; because he claims that He [Allah] did not possess knowledge until He created it."