1786 - Abdullah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal informed us, saying: I heard my father being asked about the Waqifah (those who suspend judgment on the creation of the Quran). My father said: "Whoever engages in argumentation and is known for [the use of] speculative theology (kalam), he is a Jahmi. As for whoever is not known for [the use of] speculative theology, he is to be avoided until he retracts, and whoever has no knowledge, he should ask and learn."