they preferred not to be known for it, so they committed the obstinate denial of the observable, the rejection of facts, the opposition to consensus, the casting of the Book and the Sunna behind their backs, and the assertion of something that neither a Muslim nor a disbeliever had ever said before them.

Among the wonders is that they do not dare to manifest their view or state it explicitly except in private, even if they are the rulers and the masters of the state. If you relate about them their doctrine which they believe, they hate that, deny it, and obstinately dispute it. They only make a show of venerating the Qur'an, revering the physical copies, and standing up for them upon seeing them, while in private they say: "There is nothing in them but paper and ink; what else is in them?" This is the action of the heretics.

I related what the one with whom the debate took place between me and him had said, and that was conveyed to him, so he became angry and distressed. He is one of the greatest rulers of the land, and he did not disclose his doctrine to me until I was alone with him, saying: "I want to tell you the utmost of what is in my soul, and you tell me the utmost of what is in your soul." He explicitly stated their doctrine to me just as we have related about them. When I bound him with some verses indicating that the Qur'an is these chapters, he said: "I say: This is the Qur'an; however, it is not the eternal Qur'an." I said: "Do we have two Qur'ans?"

He said: "Yes, and what does it matter if we have two Qur'ans?"

Then he became angry when I related this statement from him... We do not know of any group among the people of innovation who conceal their doctrine and do not dare to manifest it except the heretics and the Ash'arites... Thus, his view is undoubtedly the view of the Mu'tazilites; except that he wants to obfuscate, so he outwardly makes a statement that agrees with the people of truth, then interprets it with the view of the Mu'tazilites.

An example of this is that he says: The Qur'an is read, recited, memorized, written, and heard.

Then he says: The Qur'an is within the Self of the Creator, subsisting in Him; it is not chapters, nor verses, nor letters, nor words.

How, then, can its reading, hearing, and writing be conceived?

They say: Moses heard the speech of God from God, then they say: It is not with a voice... Then how is it permissible for them to give the common people the illusion of what strengthens their belief, which they claim is