644 - Muhammad ibn ‘Ali ibn Mahmud ibn Qudayd al-Warraq informed me, saying: Ishaq ibn Ibrahim al-Baghawi narrated to us, saying: It was mentioned in the presence of Ahmad ibn Hanbal one day, while we were with him, and they said: "O Aba ‘Abd Allah, there is someone here who says: 'Whoever says that ‘Ali is a just Imam has thereby nullified the sanctity of the blood of Talhah and al-Zubayr.'" A group of people with him said to him: "O Aba ‘Abd Allah, this is disbelief (kufr); for this is the decree of the Lord of the Worlds, blessed and exalted be He. Whoever says this, it is as if he is judging [against] that which has been established. This Talhah ibn ‘Ubayd Allah, Marwan ibn al-Hakam snatched an arrow for him while he was standing with them on the Day of the Camel in the ranks and said: 'I shall not seek the blood of ‘Uthman from anyone other than you,' then he shot him with an arrow and killed him. And this al-Zubayr ibn al-‘Awwam was killed by Ibn Jurmuz, while ‘Ali says: 'Give tidings of the Fire to the killer of the son of Safiyyah.' So these are bloods from which ‘Ali disavowed himself, yet he [the objector] blames him for them." Ahmad added nothing more than to say: "This is a Khariji," meaning that he [the man who said this] is one. He said: "He was neither insightful regarding Hadith nor regarding sound opinion (ra’y)."